Integrating Spirituality and Science (HH 156)

There is a meeting point where Science and Spirituality meet. But for that both Science and Spirituality have to change much. Spirituality must embrace matter not just as it is but also transmute matter by the Spirit’s Force. Science too must embrace spirituality and study the laws of our spiritual evolution just as it studies fixed processes and systems now. As we enter closer to Sri Aurobindo’s Birthday we may like to see one more rather unknown facet of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother, as a scientist who integrated and even evolved a new kind of spirituality and a new kind of science.

Words of the Mother


There is a boat being built (the symbol of the yoga, obviously), it’s made entirely of pink clay, and what a pink! … A boat of pink clay. I was there with Sri Aurobindo – a very agile Sri Aurobindo who was going about supervising the construction; I too was going up and down with extreme ease….

There were some workmen, in particular a young man who was extraordinary – I don’t think they are purely human beings. But it’s a long story….

But clay, that was something really new – and lovely! Pink. Pink, a warm, golden pink. They were cutting out [of the clay] rooms, stairways, ship decks and funnels, captains’ cabins…. Sri Aurobindo himself is as he was, but more … with a harmony of form: very, very broad here (in the chest), broad and solid. And very agile: he comes and goes, sits down, gets up, always with great majesty. His color is a sort of golden bronze, a color like the coagulation of his supramental gold, of his golden supramental being; as if it were very concentrated and coagulated to fashion his appearance; and it doesn’t reflect light: it seems as if lit from within (but it doesn’t radiate), and it doesn’t cast any shadows. But perfectly natural, it doesn’t surprise you, the most natural thing in the world: that’s the way he is. Ageless; his hair has the same color as his body: he has hair, but you can’t say if it’s hair, it’s the same color; the eyes too: a golden look. Yet it’s perfectly natural, nothing surprising. He sits down just as he used to, with his leg as he used to put it [the right leg in front], and at the same time, when he gets up, he is agile: he comes and goes. Then when he went out of the house, he went out into a big garden, and down to the boat – which wasn’t exactly a boat, it was a flat boat – and he had to go to the captain’s cabin (he had to see the captain about some work), but it was with that boat that he was returning to his room “elsewhere” – he has a room elsewhere. Then after a while I thought, “I’ll follow him so I can see.” So I followed him; as long as I saw him in front of me I followed him. And when I came to the boat, I saw it was entirely built out of pink clay! Some workmen were working there – admirable workmen. So Sri Aurobindo went down quite naturally, down into the ship under construction, Then I saw him enter the captain’s room; as he had told me he had some work to do, I thought “I’ll go back home”. And I saw one of the workmen leaving (as Sri Aurobindo had come back to the ship, they stopped the work). He was leaving. I called him, but he didn’t know my language or any of the languages I know; so I called him in thought and asked him to pull me up, as I was below and there was a sheer wall of slippery clay. Then he smiled and with his head he said, “I certainly don’t mind helping you, but it isn’t necessary! You can climb up all by yourself.” And indeed he held out his hand, I took it (I only touched him slightly), and climbed up all by myself without the slightest difficulty – I was weightless! I didn’t have to pull at his hand, he didn’t pull me up. And as soon as I was up, I went back home – I woke up and found myself in my bed … five minutes later than my usual time.

But what struck me was the clay – it means something very material, doesn’t it? And pink! A pink, oh, lovely! A golden pink.

They are building something.

It must be…. We aren’t told anything, but our work “is being done” for us.

There you are.

It left a very strong sense of Power – concentrated.

June 29, 1963


* * *


Last night, for a long time, we went to all sorts of places unknown to me: towns, countrysides, forests, etc. It lasted a very long time. And once, we were there, near a forest (near a road that crossed the forest) and we were busy and “talking” when all of a sudden, he leaped to his feet….

….it’s a kind of vibrant matter: it’s very material, very concrete, and it has a sort of color that isn’t a color, which is a bit golden and radiant – it doesn’t send out rays, but it vibrates with a radiant light. And at least nine times out of ten he is that way; generally, when we are together for some work, he is that way. Last night he was that way. So then I was busy (we had arranged something and I was busy) when, suddenly, I see him leap to his feet and run a hundred-meter sprint. At first I was shocked, I said to myself, “What’s this?!” And with great ease, you know: he darted off, then stopped a few minutes, and then ran back. Then he stopped again, and went off a third time on a sprint: like the 100-meter race they run. But the third time, he had grown tall, with a slim body. Grown tall as if to demonstrate to me: this is the way the body will be transformed. He had grown very tall, very strong.

It was very interesting and absolutely unexpected.

The second time, he was stronger than the first; and the third time, he was magnificent: a tall, superb being with that vibrant, radiant substance. And what a sprint! What leaps! It was fantastic. The last time, it was fantastic, as if he skimmed over the ground.

We “speak” very, very rarely. Sometimes he tells me something, but it’s with a special import and a special aim – we understand each other without words. There he didn’t say anything, but I understood.

It was part of a very long activity, but that thing struck me very much because it was like the answer [to what I said some time ago]. He said, “Yes, it’s true, you are right, it is like that.” And that change in his body over the three times: the first time he was as I knew him, but younger and more agile; the second time, he was already stronger; and the third time, he was magnificent.

There still remains the question I asked you on the same subject: I find it hard to see how the supramental body, which is made of a very material but nevertheless different matter…

Ah, I had another experience about that a few days ago…. You know that they are speaking of a substance “denser” than physical substance…. What do they call it?… (Mother cannot remember) Théon had already spoken about it, but I thought it was his imagination. But I have been told that it has been scientifically discovered and that the amount of that “denser matter” seems to be INCREASING.

What do they call it? There is a name. I don’t remember now, but some time ago, a month or two, someone who came from France told me that in scientific circles they now seem to be saying that matter denser than physical matter appears to be increasing in amount on earth – this would be extremely interesting. [Mother is perhaps referring to “ionized matter”?]

As for Théon, he used to say that the glorified body would be made of a matter denser than physical matter, but with qualities that physical matter doesn’t have. And this substance does have qualities, they say, that Matter doesn’t have, like for instance elasticity. Well, a few nights ago (I don’t remember when), I was in a place in which a sort of pale gray substance had been collected, which looked like diluted clay (a paste, that is). And elastic, (laughing) glutinous! It was like diluted cement, but very pale, a really lovely pearl gray, and sticky: it could be stretched like chewing gum!

And then there were a number of people who had gathered there to bathe in that substance. Some were crawling in it with delight! They were smearing themselves all over with it, and it was sticky! And I myself … Once you were there, you were inevitably plunged in it to some extent: it seemed to be there even in the air; you couldn’t avoid it. But there was a lady who took great care of me so it wouldn’t be too inconvenient: I remember that I had a sort of luminous dress, white and red (white with red decorations) in which I wrapped myself so that substance wouldn’t stick to me. But I watched the whole thing, and I saw, for instance, our Purani[ Purani passed away a few months later, on December 11, 1965.] wallowing in it, sliding with delight, dripping with that mud all over! And everybody was in that mud. Only, it was a mud of a very lovely pearl gray, but was it sticky! And in the morning when I woke up, I said to myself it must be the new substance in preparation – it’s not yet fully ready but it’s in preparation.

There were some highly amusing details: it was arranged like the establishments, you know, in those big stylish spas. It was like that. And people came there to take baths in that substance.

What do they call it?… Pavitra would know the name. I used to know it: Théon had given it the name they give it today. But I don’t remember. A matter denser than physical Matter. But elastic.

And probably a matter that will undergo some transformations, I don’t know. That cloak I put on was perhaps the symbol of … It was white with golden threads and red embroidery designs (it was very beautiful), and I wrapped myself in it so that the mud wasn’t bothersome.

What was it the symbol of?

Of the force that will transform that into an acceptable substance.


The consciousness that will learn to use that substance (just as there was a consciousness that learned to use the body’s substance) will probably know how to turn it into something that can be used. Because we have grown accustomed to it, but obviously it’s a sort of superchemistry that made this corporeal substance. We find it perfectly natural, but it hasn’t always been this way – there is a long way from the jellyfish, for example, to this body.

I had the impression of a substance that has to undergo a work of adaptation, transformation, utilization, and that would serve as an outer form for the supramental being.

My impression is that Sri Aurobindo already has his subtle supramental form. For instance, when he has to move, he doesn’t give the impression of being subject to the same laws as we are; but as it’s subtle, it doesn’t appear surprising. And also a sort of ubiquity: he is in several places at the same time. And a plasticity, an adaptability according to the work he wants to do, the people he meets. In those activities I am quite aware that I see him in a certain way, but I think others don’t see him the same way – they see him differently, probably wearing clothes. When he ran in the forest, we were all alone, and it was a large forest without anyone there; then a few minutes later, we were somewhere else and there were people, other people to whom he spoke…

I saw him once, rather long ago: I told you the story of his boat, made also of clay.

Of pink clay

Yes, it was a sort of clay, it was pink clay. Well, at the time he seemed to be wearing clothes. You see, it doesn’t have the fixity of our matter.

It was like that vision of the “supramental ship, in which everyone was dressed by his own will.

At night, when one sees you, you look tall.

Of course! Oh, but I know that! All the people look small to me, and that’s the only thing that makes me notice – I am not aware of being tall, but they look small to me.

I am tall.

You are at least this tall [Sujata points to the ceiling, about fifteen feet high].

Yes, I have noticed: I often look at people like this (Mother leans over her armchair). But it’s perfectly natural, I don’t have a feeling of being tall.


Last night, at one point we prepared a certain number of things that were at the same time like food, medicine, and a way to transform Matter. It had different colors, it was in test tubes, and he explained it all to me. But that wasn’t the first time: it has happened very often. But then, the best part of it is that when I wake up, all the precise details are immediately swept away! I seem to feel a hand that comes and takes it all away – on purpose.

But I remember, I still have the image in which he is demonstrating things with his test tubes. There was a man … who looked like a scientist (a man about forty years old, between forty and fifty, young but not very young) and very thoughtful-looking. He was sitting. I don’t know what his nationality was, I don’t remember, but he was modern; he was modern, with modern clothes, and Sri Aurobindo showed him his test tubes with things in them and the effect on a totality of matter. I was there, looking on (I was looking with great interest), and I understood everything then. And I still see the image, but the mental knowledge, the mental translation that would have enabled me to say, “Now I know,” prrt! taken away. It’s the same thing every time.

Which means it must be given to people other than me for them to use it, because they have a brain better prepared than mine, and better conditions of research.

It’s clear that the work is getting done.

June 18, 1965

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