Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
10 August 1940
Purani: It seems that when Dilip was in Calcutta, he took Bose to Baron and introduced him. That is how they know each other.
Sri Aurobindo: Dilip has no sense of these things at all. He thinks, “You are a good man, he is a good man, both should meet each other.” (Laughter)
Purani: Hitler’s Blitzkrieg has got a rude shock.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, to lose sixty planes in one attack is something. Italy also has got a knock in Libya. She lost about sixteen.
Nirodbaran: The British superiority in the air has now been proved. If only they can achieve equality in numbers.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, Hitler is superior on land only.
Purani: Somebody from Punjab, who has come for Darshan, had a severe haemorrhage from the nose. I had to call Dr. André; he gave an injection and the bleeding stopped.
Sri Aurobindo: These people ought to pay André.
Purani: Yes, this man will pay. It seems he has disposed of all his property and has come to stay here permanently, but he hasn’t received a favourable reply. That may have helped to cause the haemorrhage.
Sri Aurobindo: How could he make his arrangements without permission? Was he in communication with us?
Purani: He wrote three or four letters but got no reply. I told him that he should not have acted so hastily.
Satyendra: People take the silence as a test.
Sri Aurobindo: If he took it as a test the result was rather bad, as he got a haemorrhage.
Satyendra: Munji has asked us to accept whatever we get from the Government and fight for more.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, that is Tilak’s policy – accept even a quarter loaf.
Evening
The Pétain Government has acceded to Japan’s demand for naval and military bases in Indo-China; at first it was reported they would resist.
Sri Aurobindo: That means the end of Indo-China.
Purani: Yes.
Sri Aurobindo: The Pétain Government must have overridden Admiral Decoux’s order to fight. Why do these French admirals brandish their swords and then put them back? If they resist now, there may be some chance. Otherwise it is the end of Indo-China.
Purani: Yes. Besides, the Chinese have announced that they will resist Japan’s claim. So they can combine.
Nirodbaran: Japan is following the Russian policy. First base, then government.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, change of government by the Left and then “you”.
Satyendra: The British have quietly withdrawn their forces from Shanghai.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, that is more dignified.
Nirodbaran: The Pétain Government is putting one hundred people on trial for bringing France into the war! And Mandel is the main figure.
Sri Aurobindo: Mandel is the only man, clean and honest, who has not made money from politics. Laval and others are afraid of him. He is unpopular because of his straightforwardness.
Satyendra: He is a Jew. He refused to join his party with Ribbentrop when the latter proclaimed eternal friendship with France in 1937.
Sri Aurobindo: The result of his eternal friendship is the swallowing up of a part of France.
Satyendra: The Indian Express says that the Congress ought to accept the Viceroy’s offer, otherwise other people will come and take it.
Sri Aurobindo: Quite so. M.N. Roy has also advised unconditional support to the British Government. For once he has agreed with me.
Nirodbaran: How? You didn’t mean unconditional support!
Sri Aurobindo: They ought to have done that at the beginning as Gandhi had said. They would have got much more and British public opinion also would have swung round. Even now if they accept the Viceroy’s offer, it will come to the same thing. Otherwise they will either have to start civil disobedience or keep hanging.
Nirodbaran: You said that if the British gave Dominion Status to India, a large part of their Karma would be wiped off.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes.
Nirodbaran: Now they have offered it but if India doesn’t accept, what will be the result to British Karma?
Sri Aurobindo: I don’t know!
Purani: But where have they offered Dominion Status?
Sri Aurobindo: Why, it is the same thing. They have offered “free and equal partnership in the Commonwealth”. That is the same as Dominion Status. They can’t call it Dominion Status because Jinnah is opposed to it and the Congress too. Where it falls short is on the question of the minorities – if the minorities don’t accept it, it can’t be given. There is also the question of the expansion of the council, but that could be turned into a National Government later. And the other point against the offer is where they speak of their obligation to other people. I suppose they mean the native states.
Nirodbaran: Gandhi is against abolition of the states.
Sri Aurobindo: But Jawaharlal and all the socialists are not. So the only thing that really stands in the way is disagreement among Indians themselves.
Purani: Yes, and we always put the blame on the English; we don’t see our own faults. If we don’t come to any measure of agreement, what can they do?
Sri Aurobindo: Quite so.
Purani: People say the British are causing and continuing the disagreement.
Sri Aurobindo: Nonsense. As if there were no differences in India before. If people think that after the British withdrawal, they will be united, they will find it an illusion.