The Mother

Agenda

Volume 3

June 2, 1962

(Mother refers to the previous conversation, in which she was looking for the reasons behind the passage from one room to another, from the room of pain to the true room: “I can't catch hold of what makes it happen. What's happening? What's going on?!”)

I had an experience yesterday afternoon that might put us on the track.

It was a very interesting experience – especially interesting for some people because I became aware of certain reincarnations. I was in a state that might be called a “state of knowledge,” where I knew things with certainty, without any doubt.

But what's striking – it's connected to what I was telling you the other day – is that I was going to see some people who were on the other side of a river. Ordinarily the river water wasn't clean and you needed a boat or something to cross; but yesterday I was in a special state – I just sat down on the water and said, “I am going there.” And then, quite naturally, a current of pure, crystal clear water simply took me where I wanted to go. It was a very pleasant sensation – I was sitting on the water, all smiles, and... prrt! I was taken to the other side. “Oh, very good!” I thought. “Will it continue?...” And so once again I said, “I am going there” (that is, back to this side) and... prrt! Back I came.

Then someone came.... There are symbolic people in these “dreams”; they seem to be made up of various parts of the beings of those around me, people who have a particular relationship with me and bring a particular help to the Work. They are symbolic characters and always the same: one of them is tall and thin, some are small, there are young ones, old ones.... I can't say it's this person or that person, but rather that something IN this or that person is represented in these characters. And one of them is like a “big brother” – he helps out in certain circumstances; if there's a boat, for instance, the big brother steers it. So he came up to me and said, “Yes, I know the method,” and began to try. “Stop, for heaven's sake!” I said. “You'll spoil everything; to make it work I have to say: I WANT TO GO THERE.” When he began trying to bring me across with his own methods, the water grew muddy again and I started to sink! “No no no!” I protested. “Don't do that, that's not it at all! THAT has to...” (although I wasn't formulating it to myself, what I meant was the sense of a certain higher Will) “THAT has to say: I WANT TO GO THERE; then it works.”

After that, the experience changed, other things happened. But what I have just related is certainly part and parcel of that experience the other day [the two rooms, one inside the other], because the two were coexistent.¹

And the water was so real! The experience was so real that I could feel the coolness of the water; I had the pleasant sensation of sitting on something very soft and cool and swift, carrying me along.

It must be part of the same series of experiences.

And I know I was in a state of knowledge, because I suddenly knew who certain people here – people I have known for a very, very long time – were the reincarnations of (I had never tried to find that out, it just came). I was almost calling them by their former names.... Yes, a special state, a state of knowledge – but not spiritual knowledge: a knowledge related to the material world. In such visions, water always represents the vital. When everything is harmonious with the water, it means the vital is harmonious.

It was delightful (it happened around 1:30 in the afternoon): sitting on the water the way you would sit on a chair! And the water was so clear, crystal clear, transparent, rippled with tiny waves; the depths were dark blue, but the surface was perfectly clear, transparent, almost colorless. Then when the “big brother” came, boasting that he knew how to do it too, and would take me across, the water began to get muddy, as river water always is – a dirty grayish yellow.

It must be the continuation of that experience the other day. I was beginning to find the key.

What does this “big brother” represent?

Material knowledge, I think – I mean the higher use of the physical mind, which keeps you from entering the true room.² Because I simply kept repeating, “I have to say: I WANT TO GO THERE...” (in other words, it was a crystal clear, imperative will coming from the highest level)... “I have to say: I WANT TO GO – not that, not your methods!” (Mother laughs.)

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(A little later, regarding Mother's exclamation: “If only the mechanism could be found!”)

It's neither “trick” nor twist, but something in between.

There are boxes that can only be opened in a certain way, and if you don't know the way.... Some cupboards are like that, too. It's not obvious. It really is a trick, but even more than a trick, a kind of very subtle little mechanism. Like being just on the verge of attaining something, and suddenly – ah! You know you've got it!

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(Mother then refers to a passage from the previous conversation in which she said: “I don't want to find anything for myself alone... every time I am in that state I spread it around.”)

Immediately, as soon as I am in that state, there's an instantaneous will to spread it around as much as possible, so that all who are close to me in some way, materially or spiritually, may benefit from it. That's my very first movement. And it's probably also how I catch the contagion of the wrong room!

Very probably. But after all, it's necessary.

But are we the least bit receptive to your work?

I have seen instances of people having quite unexpected experiences, experiences out of all proportion to their normal state of consciousness, and very clearly resulting from that movement. It wouldn't be kind to name them, because... really, you would never expect them to have such experiences! And it certainly comes from that.

Yes, it has effects – far and near. The people nearest to me don't seem to be the most receptive; but with them the action is much more complex and SOLID – I mean instead of a sudden experience that's almost, as I said, out of proportion to their normal condition, something is being progressively BUILT.... I constantly find myself in the midst of constructions, immense constructions in the making. It was like that last night; I had to flounder about in something like cement, a kind of batter. And then I meet all sorts of people who are also more or less symbolic, but who sometimes have the features of a specific person. It's a whole WORLD of circumstances, symbolic down to the most minute details. I remember everything, but I would have to describe a whole world... and an apparently uninteresting world, at that (outwardly uninteresting, I mean); but it gives me the key, from every point of view, to the present state of things, to the world now in the making.

Last night I spent almost all my time in such a building. And all the people who help the work were symbolized there – but it's always a material help, either work or money or.... I remember being particularly struck by one character last night. (Again, there were a lot of aggravations, but someone or something was always on the scene when I arrived and it all sorted itself out – it was the exact opposite of the dreams I was talking about the other day: all the difficulties sorted themselves out when I arrived.) Then I came to a rather difficult place to cross (you had to flounder about on slippery scaffoldings) and suddenly, facing me, there was a man (of course, it was probably a symbol rather than a man, but it might really be someone physical). He was one of the workers, a master mason (when I woke up this morning, I thought of the symbolism of Freemasonry and wondered if it might give a clue to the experience). Nearby, people were coming to supervise, observe, direct, people who thought themselves highly superior... but they were never any help in solving practical problems! They were creating more problems than they were helping to solve. Anyway, this master mason appeared to be around fifty, with a beautiful face – a worker's face, beautiful and concentrated. There was a difficult place to cross, and he had worked the thing out very efficiently, with a lot of care. Then, when it was all done and I was able to go on my way, I felt a great surge of love go out to him, with neither gesture nor word – and he received it, he felt and received it. His face lit up and he implored me, with wonderful humility, “Never let me forget this moment, the most beautiful moment of my life.” (I don't know what language he used because it didn't come to me in words.) It was such an intense experience. His humility, his receptivity, his response were all so beautiful and pure that when I woke up – when I came out of the experience, at any rate – I was left with a most delightful impression.

What he represents might be partly manifested by somebody here. A beautiful face... a man around fifty. Or it may be symbolic: such characters are sometimes put together with features from several people, to make it very clear that they represent a state of consciousness and not an individual. It's far more often a state of consciousness than an individual.

But this experience left me with a true sense of satisfaction, of fullness: his work had been perfect and his response to the divine Force, to the Grace that came to him, was magnificent.... It may be several people,³ it may be one particular person – I don't know. It happened just last night.

You remember all the difficulties I encountered in those other visions at night. Well, this was very interesting because it was just the opposite: I was in a very complicated place full of obstacles and difficulties, but someone or something was always there when I arrived – everything would get sorted out and I would go on my way. It all sorted itself out automatically... the feeling of a power putting everything in order. And I remember when the mason arrived, just as I was facing that rather big obstacle, there was someone on my right (someone very “official,” wearing a dark coat) who thought (the contact was through thought rather than words), “Oh! She's always calling on the workers for help instead of....” And I answered, “The workers are more efficient and their goodwill...” (all that business of “caste,” you know, or of “society” or “social position”). “The workers have simple hearts,” I said, “they are efficient in their work and have more goodwill than the people who think they're so smart!” It was funny. So this made two interesting experiences yesterday, one after the other.

The afternoon experience was very intriguing; I was busy working (organizing things for one of the departments, I no longer remember which) and then I said to the person I was with, “Now I am going to my cousins' place!...” When I was very young I had a cousin, the eldest son of one of my father's brothers (he had a large family, such as you seldom see in France). This cousin became some kind of engineer – a civil engineer, maybe, or a mechanical engineer (he was an outstanding chemist). Anyway, this boy was very attracted to me. He went off to the war as an officer and caught some disease (I forget what) and died around 1915, at the time I returned to France. Well, in my experience yesterday afternoon, a certain family living HERE gave me exactly the same sensation I had had towards those people when I was young. And especially for this cousin (for the rest of the family it was more vague, like a background to the experience). “I am going to their place,” I said. They have a lovely estate here, just as they had a lovely estate in France before (they had Madame de Sevigne's chateau at Sucy, near Paris – a beautiful property). And it was all so concrete! It wasn't coming through the head; it wasn't a thought but a sensation. “I have to go see him now,” I said. And even as I was having my vision I was telling myself, “You must be going crazy! Can they really be here in Pondicherry?” This uncle with whom I had only rather distant relations and this cousin I never saw much of, but whom I knew to be very nice and very loyal – “Are they really here?!” The sensation was most strange (the head wasn't functioning at all; it was a SENSATION). So off I went to see this “cousin,” and it was on the way to see him that I had the experience of crossing the river. And on the way back, after the discussion with the “spiritual brother” (whom I really told off: “Get out of here! I don't need you!”), after that, when I found myself back on the bank, I started collecting my consciousness again, telling myself, “Look here now! Let's try to see clearly.” And then I realized that the cousin who died prematurely during the war had reincarnated in someone here. “How strange,” I thought.... And the dates coincided.

But that is a singular state: there is no mental intervention at all; you live things POSITIVELY, just as you experience them physically, in the same way that this (Mother knocks on the table next to her) is physically a table. It's that kind of perception – something positive. I positively said, “I am going to my cousins' place,” and the relationship had an absolutely positive vibration – it wasn't at all something thought or even “remembered”: there's no “remembering” anything, it's simply there, alive. A strange state. I have had it on several occasions, and when I have it I am aware that this must be the state people who know what is happening and make predictions are in – in this state there is no possibility of doubt. No thoughts intervene – none at all, not one. Absolutely nothing intellectual: simply certain vital-physical vibrations, and then you know. And you don't even wonder how you know; it's not that kind of thing – it's self-evident. And since I was in that state when I saw the reincarnation of the cousin, I am perfectly sure of what I saw. And god knows (Mother laughs), when I came out of it and began to look at it all with my usual consciousness, I said to myself, “My word! I would never have thought of such a thing!” It was millions of miles from any thought of mine. Besides, I never used to think of that cousin; he was a fine boy but I never paid much attention to him, he had no place in my active consciousness.

It's fun.

Well, mon petit. If you could have nights like that – it's so much fun!

There must be a gap somewhere.

There is – I know there is. There's simply a void between two parts of your consciousness, and when your consciousness passes through, it loses touch with everything on the other side.... It's as though you had fallen into a hole, and then, ooh!

It takes a very long time to build, but there must be a way to make a bridge – that's what I am hunting for now.

But isn't there a practical method?

A practical method... yes.

First of all, materially speaking, when you wake up you must ALWAYS KEEP STILL. You have to teach your body.... You know, you mustn't even (Mother turns her head) move your head. Keep completely still. And stay like that, suspended between sleep and waking, with a very TRANQUIL will to remember.

You may succeed immediately, but it may also take time.

But from the purely material standpoint, it's elementary: if you so much as turn your head on awaking, everything fades away. You have to stay absolutely still, in a sort of peaceful concentration. And then you wait.

If you sometimes remember a word or a gesture, a color or an image, hang on to it and don't move.

Some people succeed right away; for others it takes longer. But it always succeeds in the end. You just have to build a bridge, that's all.

And then, don't be in a hurry to get up, above all don't say, “Oh, I'll be late....” Just stay there, as if you had all eternity before you.

¹ I.e., the crystalline river and the muddy river, the room of pain and the true room. Mother later clarified: “At a given moment, the water was either one way or the other; I wasn't changing place, the STATE was changing.”

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² Mother reemphasized: “Those who use the mind to seek knowledge cannot enter the true room – that is quite clear.”

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³ Several people combined in this single individual being.

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