A Talk by Alok Pandey from “Tuesday Talks” series (AUDIO)
The Mother and Sri Aurobindo have acted both in the past as well as the present upon world events giving them a certain direction for the future. It was one of their works, to bring the earth and humanity closer to the Truth or the Divine Idea implanted in the heart of creation. Their role in India’s Freedom struggle and the two World Wars, especially the Second World War is relatively better known. But there were many points in the emerging world-scenario, where they intervened thereby shaping our history. Today we take a look at one such slice of history with reference to the problems that India faces from the twin borders of China and Pakistan.
Words of Sri Aurobindo
“For instance, India is free and her freedom was necessary if the divine work was to be done. The difficulties that surround her now and may increase for a time, especially with regard to the Pakistan imbroglio, were also things that had to come and to be cleared out…. Here too there is sure to be a full clearance, though unfortunately, a considerable amount of human suffering in the process is inevitable. Afterwards the work for the Divine will become more possible and it may well be that the dream, if it is a dream, of leading the world towards the spiritual light, may even become a reality. So I am not disposed even now, in these dark conditions to consider my will to help the world as condemned to failure.”
Words of the Mother
The message [“India is ONE”] has gone about everywhere, and has been accepted. It’s better not to talk about that.
We’ll be really glad when it’s sorted out … because it’s a lovable country, this!
There aren’t two like this one; it is true that there aren’t two countries alike, but the others are all sorts of different things on the same plane, while this is found only here.
It’s something you breathe in with the country’s atmosphere.
I had this experience very, very strongly. When I left here [in 1915], as I got farther away, I felt as if emptied of something, and once in the Mediterranean, I wasn’t able to bear it any longer: I fell ill. And even in Japan, which outwardly is a marvelous country – marvelously beautiful and harmonious (it WAS, I don’t know what it is nowadays), and outwardly it was a joy every minute, a breathtaking joy, so strong was the expression of beauty – yet I felt empty, empty, empty, I absolutely lacked … (Mother opens her mouth as though suffocating) … I lacked the important Thing. And I found it again only when I came back here.
But in any case the Chinese are on Pakistan’s side. In any case. The Chinese are already there in Pakistan, do you know?
Yesterday P. returned from Calcutta and showed me a rifle bullet, and it’s a Chinese bullet.
Already they have some … [men there].
But, Mother, don’t forget that India betrayed Tibet! When Tibet was invaded by the Chinese, Nehru kept his mouth, eyes and ears shut and did nothing to help the Tibetans….
(Mother shakes her head)
All that is the continuation of Gandhi’s legacy – this false politics is being perpetrated by Gandhi’s sons.
No, you see … you see, they’re even fighting on the wrong side in Ceylon.
No, it’s not that – it’s much worse than Gandhi.
You don’t have anything?
All that isn’t very encouraging.
(Mother nods her head) No, it’s worse still: there is a VERY disastrous formation over India, and they’re pulling it down, the fools!
But precisely, Mother, one just can’t keep from thinking that Kali has to intervene.
(after a silence)
But already quite some time ago I saw China invading India, even South India. And that’s the worst of catastrophes – the Chinese don’t have a psychic being. The Chinese have a lunar origin and they don’t have a psychic being (there are exceptions, but I mean in general), and so one can expect ANYTHING from them – every possible horror. I’ve seen them – all, everywhere … horrible!
I’ve seen the Chinese in this room.
….Which is the end of everything. I mean, it will probably take centuries before things can return to normalcy.
You see, there are limits to the horrors men can commit because, in spite of everything, there is a psychic being behind that curbs them – but the Chinese don’t have one.
And they are VERY intelligent.
For example, Mother, the Americans are quietly giving aid to Pakistan again because they say, their reasoning is: if we don’t give aid, then we leave the whole territory of Pakistan to the Chinese.
That’s sheer … [madness].
June 26, 1971
But you yourself, what do you see?
(Mother goes within)
It’s very mixed. I mean the Forces on one side and the Opposition on the other are not clear-cut – it’s not like that. Pakistan is fully in falsehood, but even there…. It’s mixed, very mixed.
The Force is clearly working in favor of India, that I see, but…. What did you mean?
I meant that India too is as much in the falsehood as Pakistan.
But of course! That’s just the trouble. Not so much…..
It won’t be done that way. I’ve seen how. It won’t be done through a battle: the different parts of Pakistan will demand separation. There are five of them. And by separating, they’ll join India – to form a sort of confederation. That’s how it will be done.
It will break up from within, yes, I see.
That’s right. That’s how it will be done.
I saw it, I don’t remember what day (recently), all of a sudden, for several hours there was a contact with the Divine Power and Vision – it was … it was magnificent, things became extraordinary; then, immediately the next day, all the news changed. Really extraordinary. What actually took place isn’t what I saw, for it was seen years ahead…. But that doesn’t matter, it’s all right.
…..We’re always in a hurry, because life on earth is short, but when you see what is in the offing … (vast, circular gesture). Really beautiful, much better! It takes more time, but it’s much better.
One of the things in the offing is the conversion of America, the United States, but it will take time.
The conversion of the United States.
But strangely enough, ever since these people began fighting up there [along the Himalayan border], the earth has been more receptive.
Yet people have fought before – people have fought everywhere, haven’t they? Since the last war they have never stopped fighting in one place or another: in Africa, in Asia, everywhere. They’ve been constantly fighting. There was always something, constantly. This whole Algerian story … terrible things went on there; and all the trouble in the Congo and so forth – battles everywhere. But … I don’t know why (it’s not that I wasn’t concerned with these events, they were in my consciousness), but this time two things have happened: a greater Power has descended (something very concrete, almost tangible), a great Power has descended, has been especially sent; and also a certain receptivity – everywhere, even in the Chinese (I don’t mean locally: it’s all over the world). Is it because, materially, there’s some anxiety at the idea of…? If a new world war starts, it’s obviously going to be something unspeakable, frightful, frightful – whole civilizations will be swallowed up. It will put a stop to life on earth in a terrible way. Is that what made people…? Has this awakened some aspiration? Possibly. There’s clearly a greater receptivity. I see this from the fact that whenever the Will spreads out (Mother makes a gesture of emanation), well, it has a more concrete and more immediate effect……
November 17, 1962
(Concerning the Sino-Indian conflict along the Himalayan border:)
X wrote N. to announce – in precise and almost violent terms – that it was the beginning of a general upheaval, a catastrophic world war….
I don’t know, I have the feeling that humanity isn’t ready for peace and needs to be shaken up.
Yes, unfortunately it’s not ready.
They’re falling into a stupor.
They’re falling into a stupor, lulling themselves with their non violence, their petty morality…. Humanity isn’t ready.
It’s a pity.
Because it can set things back thousands of years…. For there are moments when things converge, and it is rare to have a MOMENT in this Story: it stretches over long, long, almost indefinite periods of time. So to get a MOMENT that becomes something actual in terrestrial life (Mother drives her fist into the Earth) is very difficult. And if that moment is passed by, is missed….
June 18, 1965
“One” is wondering if, really, it won’t be necessary to have an American occupation here, which would have the double effect of converting the Americans and making the Indians make some progress…. Practical progress is what they would make, as the Japanese did. And the Americans are now the disciples of the Japanese: from the point of view of Beauty they have made wonderful and absolutely unexpected progress. If the Americans came here, they would be converted, they would become … oh, they would understand spiritual life. Only, of course, it wouldn’t be too pleasant (!) But it’s the surest method – it’s always the dominator that learns the lesson from the dominated. The Americans might become the most militant spiritualists in the world if they occupied India. Only, the Indians would have a bad time…. But they would become very practical, they would learn to put order in what they do – which they quite lack (just see, I didn’t make you say that for that typewriter).
It’s troublesome. It’s something in suspense [the American occupation]. In my active consciousness, I don’t want it. First, it would take a long time – it always takes a long time. A lot of time wasted, a lot of suffering, a lot of humiliation. But it’s a very radical method.
At any rate, if a new domination is indispensable, it would be INFINITELY better for it to be by the Americans than by the Russians because what would be learned from the Russians is an UNNECESSARY lesson: it’s community, the truth of community – the Indians knew it before the Russians (the Sannyasins were the ideal community); they knew it before the Russians, so they have nothing to learn there, it would be perfectly unnecessary. And to tell the truth, I am completely indifferent as to whether or not the Russians become spiritualists, because the Russians, in their soul, are mystics – they are AT LEAST (at least) as mystical as the Indians. So all their community and Communism is pretentiousness. It would be no use – no use at all.
An American occupation is a drastic method, but … Oh, when I see here the extent to which they can be imbued with the English spirit, oh, it’s hideous – I don’t like the English. And the English … the English have learned the maximum from the Indians, but for them the maximum is nothing much. The Americans want to learn. They are young and they want to learn; the English are old, stale, hardened and … oh, so conceited – they know everything better than everyone else. So they learned very little. They benefited the maximum, but that’s very little; their maximum is very little. The English … (gesture of sinking) they are destined to sink underwater.[[Mother had already told Satprem many years earlier that the island of Great Britain was destined to disappear underwater. It is indeed remarkable that English experts made the following observation, as reported in India’s Sunday Standard of January 20, 1974: “London has become more vulnerable to floods owing to the fact that England is slowly tilting over: the southeast is gradually sinking while Scotland’s north-west is rising.” ]]
It seems more likely that the Chinese would be the ones to come here, not the others.
Oh, but the Chinese … The Chinese come from the moon, what are they doing on earth! The origin of the Chinese isn’t earthly: it is lunar.
Yes, but still, it seems they would be the ones to come here rather than the Americans or Russians?
Than the Americans …
Circumstances seem rather…
No, the Americans can come here to “save” India from China.
To be under Chinese domination … it’s better to die first. They are … from the point of view of sensitivity, they are monsters.
They are monsters.
They are lunar – lunar, that is, cold, icy.
No, there’s no wavering between the two. The Chinese, the Chinese domination over the earth is … it means the earth hardening, the earth growing cold like the moon. Oh, that would be dreadful.
Ah, good-bye, my children.
We don’t want catastrophes.